Curse

bringer di morte · Nov 11, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

people are missing the ENTIRE point of this update.

before update if you are a mes, ranger, or necro you are screwed at getting a group. might as well give up on mes and go pvp only for that class. necros only got in if they are batteries. rangers only got in if they where trappers.

here are my points

1. this opened the window for other classes to get groups easier. wars, monks, and eles are not the only classes on this game.

2. farming is not an effective gold machine. drops are nerfed and the more you do it the less you get. takes huge amounts of money to make the farmer and endless (boring) hours farming to even make a buck. its pointless to begin with.

3. smart people know that running is where you make the real gold. if you can tell me a better way to make 120k in 4 hours then sign me up. with the update running just got easier. GW did not make it harder to get gold they just made it easier.

4. they are combating bots and i'm all for it. i'd rather the devs ruin the game then bots ran by millionars that don't give a crap about the game or the people that took years to make it.

5. welcome to GW. the game constantly changes. if you haven't noticed this in 6 months you probly shouldn't play it. adapt or die its survival of the fittest.

The part I want to argue about is number 5. I know a lot of people go to classes, have a job, and maybe even juggle a family. How are they supposed to have time to rethink their characters, buy new skills, make enough money, etc. I bought this game to have fun, make my way through it, meet people etc. I didn't pay 50 dollars to have to spend time rethinking a build when I could be doing school work. Anet should think about the casual players who don't sit playing for 10 hours straight.

All I'm trying to say is Anet's update should be somewhat reversed, if not just reduced. Basically they made it so the people who don't play Guild Wars for hours at a time won't have much of a place later in the game (past the first few missions). If something doesn't happen, they could easily lose a quarter of their players. Seriously people, unless you play the game for hours upon hours at a time, you won't be able to cope with this update easily. And seriously, now that running is easier, we're going to have an overload of "RUNNING TO KRYTA FROM ASCALON FOR TIPS."

aron searle · Nov 11, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

I dont see why farming is soo bad, and its not the same as botting. I mean they have FOW armour, which as far as im concerned ENCOURAGES farming.....

look at protective bond, because of the need to stop farming its now useless to everyone and not just farmers. And now a whole load of other spells have been severly restricted, yes they can still be used but only to expliot the now weaker AI, for example making the mobs run around in circles like a bunch of mindless flies round a lightbulb.

ffs just make it so you need 5+ people to enter UW.

And if Anet are so against farming, remove the bloody need to altogether. (but they wouldnt becuase you would REALLY see alot of pizzed of peole then).

(this is just to defend famers who belive it or not are NOT THE ANTI CHRIST).

Zaklex · Nov 11, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

For the zillionth time, Guild Wars is a CORPG(COMPETITIVE On-line[semi]RPG) and not another MMORPG. So let's leave the MMORPG argument out of this one.

morgothstark · Nov 11, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Alone

I think one of the main issues on this update is to disable bots (if there are bots for this game) beside just making our life more interesting and funny.

There is a big market for game items/gold for real money going on right now and this update can destroy economy since those people who buy game gold will be able to offer high price when desent players won't be able to do so.
If this will happend it will destroy the economy, and block the game for casual players.
It's as if ANet says: all you casual gamers don't deserve any high end items because you are not actualy living IN the game.
On the other hand.
If those who sell items/gold for real money do activate bots to get their
good, this update makes their life much harder which might be good.

Time will tell how good this change was. For now, we all should enjoy a new, challanging and interesting PvE experience

Morgoth Stark

aron searle · Nov 11, 2005, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Yeah there is a way of getting money.

It's called selling monster drops.

400 hours 400 HOURS out of 550 i have played this game not farming but teamplay, ive got jackshiz from playing the game.

ALL my good drops are from farming.

THATS WHY I FARM

tuperwho · Nov 11, 2005, 10:43 PM // 22:43

While I am a very big supporter of getting rid of fotm or overused builds (and absolutely botters and sweat shops), I think this one went a little far. It just seems like they brought out the nerf bazooka on too large of a set of skills. Though I have an ele I've been using earth, water, and a little fire nuking with, I'm fine with the idea of decreasing the overwhelming nuking power. I think they could have found better ways to do this, though. As it stands, any multitarget spell is toast, sometimes even before casting (haven't tried this myself yet, but it's what I've gathered from this thread). This is just rediculous. By all means, decrease damage of firestorm and meteor shower. Decrease the effectiveness of nukers. But don't make it so one time AOE spells cause this effect, and especially don't make enemy running pre-emptive.

I guess I have mixed feelings about this update. I like the premise, but think the execution was poor. And to all those farmers out there, perhaps a change of perspective is needed. I spent a good amount of planning and playing time working out a pure ele solo farming build. I didn't do it for cash or drops, but for satisfaction. It was a challenge and a test to see how good I could get my character. Now, this update did indeed ruin my build, but it also opened the door to try new ways to drop hoards of griff's/ minos. And if all else fails, at least I started my new ranger a week or so ago!

But, I digress. My question is if we can maybe change the direction of this thread to more of an utility than a place to argue over opinions none of us are gonna change? Can we start a list of skills that are or aren't effected, to use as a resource? For example, after reading most of this post so far, I've seen hundred blades, cyclone axe, etc. listed as both causing AI to flee and not. Can we try to straighten these and others out to help each other cope?

Single tear, but time to move on.

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 11, 2005, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

400 hours 400 HOURS out of 550 i have played this game not farming but teamplay, ive got jackshiz from playing the game.

ALL my good drops are from farming.

THATS WHY I FARM

Amen brother!

I get nothing.. except a shard and some good weapons!

Knots In Socks · Nov 11, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

400 hours 400 HOURS out of 550 i have played this game not farming but teamplay, ive got jackshiz from playing the game.

ALL my good drops are from farming.

THATS WHY I FARM

Yes, I have about 350+ hours, about 25 of them are from farming. Every thing I have is from farming, nothing else. If guild wars is is going to get rid of the only solid way of getting good stuff, they need to compinsate in another way.

Take WoW's instances, when you were on one, atleast some one is going to get a good item from a boss. Guild wars does nothing like that. Closest thing that comes to a WoW intance is the HoH chest, but not all people can do HoH.

Im saying take away our farming, give us more content in the missions. You won't loose me forever, but for now im not going to play GW to the fact that the content is stale and repetitive. Farming was my last thing "fun" to do.

~~~Knots In Socks

Zexion · Nov 11, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=79080

Read my post here.
Go idol^^

And yes, I think the nerf of firestorm is a bit extreme, they should at least stay in it for 3 or so seconds, and only JUST step out of it, not run away, but whatever.
And I think the mobs lose aggro too quickly now when you run from them.
Impossible to gather up mobs for farming>.<

_Zexion

Numa Pompilius · Nov 11, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

So a Tank in PvP beating you to within an inch of your life when he hasn't taken a scratch runs off shitting himself at the slightest sniff of AoE damage does he?
Sure the mobs are now just like humans. I always see IWAY teams run off screaming as soon as a flame trap goes off. AI my arse.

That might be because IWAY teams have maxed health regeneration once triggered and a firestorm doesn't even tickle.

Drop meteor shower or firestorm on an axe or hammer warrior, or better yet a human caster, do they stay around?

Quote:

And from the other angle, PvP players aren't 8 levels higher than you with tonnes more armour and the ability to decimate a team if they get anywhere near them.

Then again, the AI isn't nearly as intelligent as real humans are, only have skills from one class, and there's 8 of you and only 2-4 of them (unless you mess up).

Quote:

It doesn't even make the game harder.

Oh it's harder alright. Not least because they try to kite you into triggering adds. It needs tweaking (mobs shouldn't run from one-hit AoE's like fireball, that's a bug IMO), but this is a big step forward. There's still problems with the AI, but clearly an improvement.

Quote:

imited (pve) game, where many have a top level characters and want to rush new ones through ASAP without having to crawl through every quest/mission/area they've seen all before again

I don't give a sh!t about the plight of people who don't want to play the game. I definitely don't want the PvE balanced so people who don't want to play PvE can get through it as quickly as possible.
Besides, if their guildies can't run them through the game because of this patch, then their guildies are incompetent.

Quote:

And how much 'use' will you get out your new Necro and Mesmer PvE buddies when Aatxes break aggro from a Firestorm

...and runs right into a Signet of Midnight & Enfeeble?

But perhaps the ele dumping the firestorm should've dropped a ward against foes first. Or any of the numerous other ele snares. Before he started nuking.
Human players might even be flexible enough to decide not to nuke, and spike and snare instead.

Quote:

The whole thing just stinks of a cheap, quick fix to stop farming and nothing else. I'd even bet the effects for Elem's and others weren't even considered. They just tested if farming was more of a bitch or not.

That doesn't make sense, as it doesn't stop farming. Well, it makes 5-man-team echo-nuke green-item farming in Sorrows Furnace a bit harder, but hardly stops that either.

bringer di morte · Nov 11, 2005, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Human players might even be flexible enough to decide not to nuke, and spike and snare instead.

I have to disagree. I have some updates for things enemies in PvE run away from now:
Symbol of Wrath/Balthazar's Aura
Gladiator's Defense
Zealot's Fire (when you use a skill that targets the ally, not just putting the enchant on)
Traps in general (Directed towards Numa Popilius: Snaring with a ranger will not be the same anymore)
Maelstrom, Chaos Storm, Fire Storm, Meteor Storm, Fireball, Rogdorts Invocation, etc.
More to come when I try my earth ele build.

-EDIT-
They run away from Eruption now too.

Yamat · Nov 11, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knots In Socks

Yes, I have about 350+ hours, about 25 of them are from farming. Every thing I have is from farming, nothing else. If guild wars is is going to get rid of the only solid way of getting good stuff, they need to compinsate in another way.

Erm... collector items?

Just because it's Gold or Green, doesn't make it good. I can make a fire staff just as good as the green drop with a desert collector item and two upgrades, for less than half the price it's currently selling for...

Darkest Dawn · Nov 11, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

400 hours 400 HOURS out of 550 i have played this game not farming but teamplay, ive got jackshiz from playing the game.

ALL my good drops are from farming.

THATS WHY I FARM

I don't farm a huge amount, but when I do it is for gear or materials for myself and my guildies, not to sell in chat.

A certain amount of farming is important for even an average player. Not all farming is due to hardcore farmers, though I am for them doing it if they want to.

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 11, 2005, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Would this fixed the possible nerfed elementlist patch by making the drops rate for rares higher so that we can all get some great drops for once in our life?

aron searle · Nov 11, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Erm... collector items?

Just because it's Gold or Green, doesn't make it good. I can make a fire staff just as good as the green drop with a desert collector item and two upgrades, for less than half the price it's currently selling for...

With that argument i could just say remove ALL drops.

Quote:

I don't farm a huge amount, but when I do it is for gear or materials for myself and my guildies, not to sell in chat.

Same here, also for weopons to use for myself, that look a little different that the utterly DULL looking collectors ones.

(EDIT = Whats so wrong with wanting to have something GOOD drop, you dont get that in teamplay enought to make team farming worth the effort).

Teufel Eldritch · Nov 11, 2005, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

400 hours 400 HOURS out of 550 i have played this game not farming but teamplay, ive got jackshiz from playing the game.

ALL my good drops are from farming.

THATS WHY I FARM

I have over 2500 hours across all toons & I have yet to farm ONCE. I use collectors items, a few greens(I give most of my greens away to friends & they in turn give me greens back), I have 3 sets of 15k & yet I seem do alright. Sure I don't make massive amounts of money like farmers or GIGANTIC amounts of money like runners but I have done well enough that none of my toons is hurting for anything.

I am curious as to what your goals are. Your views on what "jackshiz" is. Why I say this is...because I think it's all a mindset. I think you probably expect to have more stuff/more cash than I think I have to have so consequently you think you're doing bad when I would think I was doing good. Did that make sense?

Yamat · Nov 11, 2005, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

With that argument i could just say remove ALL drops.

Still need the collector materials...

aron searle · Nov 11, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

I have over 2500 hours across all toons & I have yet to farm ONCE. I use collectors items, a few greens(I give most of my greens away to friends & they in turn give me greens back), I have 3 sets of 15k & yet I seem do alright. Sure I don't make massive amounts of money like farmers or GIGANTIC amounts of money like runners but I have done well enough that none of my toons is hurting for anything.

I am curious as to what your goals are. Your views on what "jackshiz" is. Why I say this is...because I think it's all a mindset. I think you probably expect to have more stuff/more cash than I think I have to have so consequently you think your'e doing bad when I would think I was doing good. Did that make sense?

Look you are ok with collectors items, Some of us want to farm for slightly more unique ones.

Let me and others have that opionoin please, we do know about the collectors items. Stop making us justify ourselfs.

(EDIT = Yamat, i meant no weopons drops just materials or gold).

And my goal is too enjoy myself, which i mainly get from helping guildees do missions, or trying out new builds/strategys.

Farming is another thing to keep me interested when no guildees are on or i just fancy it.

Teufel Eldritch · Nov 11, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

My point being you dont need to farm. You dont need to farm to get greens. You don't need to farm for anything. You dont need to farm at all. You can just play the game(albeit repeatedly) to get the things you need/want. Farming in many ways is a more of a mindset than a playstyle.

I was just trying to get you to tell me what you feel is "doing good." If you would rather get all offended & act as if I am nullyifying your opinon then so be it, but that was not my intent.

Thank you for playing Guild Wars.

aron searle · Nov 11, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

My point being you dont need to farm. You dont need to farm to get greens. You don't need to farm for anything. You dont need to farm at all. You can just play the game(albeit repeatedly) to get the things you need/want. Farming in many ways is a more of a mindset than a playstyle.

I was just trying to get you to tell me what you feel is "doing good." If you would rather get all offended & act as if I am nullyifying your opinon then so be it, but that was not my intent.

Thank you for playing Guild Wars.

And my point is ill play the game how the damn well I WANT TO.

STOP judging people by your own standards, we all play for our own reasons, NOT YOURS.

(EDIT, sorry for the tone but your basicly pointing out i dont need to farm, like i said i KNOW about collectors items and ill approach the game in my manor, i am fed up of people telling me and others we are wrong to do it our way).